This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. The Army lowered the max TIS to 8 years for WOFT applicants a few years ago without a waiver. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. PDF Training Officer Active Duty Service Obligations - United States Army But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. Increased ADSO Effect on Recruiting and Retention The rest are grandfathered in. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. This is both expensive and time-consumingtough to fit in around a 9-5 as an engineer, especially if he has a family. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. (Read. Army rescinds COVID-19 vaccination requirements, $84 million contract awarded for Excalibur replenishment, Army officer part of newly resumed cooperation for International Space Station, Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sarah Stone is just one of four, Army CIO speaks at Army Europe and Africa 2022 Cybersecurity Summit, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Mr. Douglas Bush, ASA for AL&T, July 27, 2022, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Dr. Raj Iyer, Army Chief Information Officer, and LTG John B. Morrison, Jr., Army Deputy Chief of Staff G-6 June 09, 2022, Vietnamese-American service members parallel paths to the American dream, Bengali chief warrant officer finds the American dream through serving, Soldiers inspire new Army directive on parenthood, pregnancy and postpartum policies, U.S. Army STAND-TO! They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? Branching Aviation New Commitment | United States of America Service Sounds great! We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. Time will tell. Ironically, the reason why Congress established a limit on entry into flight training is because the Army in the late 60's and early 70's started to funnel relatively large numbers of maneuver General Officers through flight school. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. They think this is going to solve the shortage. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. Question for the Salty Dogs: 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation - reddit 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. Unfortunately, it will likely not have the opportunity to do so due to the negative impact it will have on retention in the near term. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. Army Career Satisfaction Program SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. b. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. Aviation Warrant Officers have a 10-year service commitment after completing Warrant Officer Flight School. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. As a result, the US Army Aviation Center of Excellence initiated a survey to better inform future incentive and quality of life programs designed to increase retention.. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND > In-Service Opportunities > U.S. Army All of military aviation is what you make of it. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) I greatly appreciate the responsiveness of this community and the depth of feedback y'all have provided, but I want to be sure that the consensus expressed herein is not just the culmination of a bunch of bad experiences but is actually a systemic issue. The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. Privacy Policy. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. If you havent already read Part, Part 1: Air Force Reserve Officers Training Corps (AFROTC) Table of Contents What is AFROTC? Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. That's my 2 cents. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. So Army. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. What a joke. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. 10 Year ADSC - End of the World? | BogiDope I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. My formation barely ever conducts social events. Upload or insert images from URL. In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? NO WOFT POSTS. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. I assume you're in flight school officially once completing BCT and WOCS. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. Of the two, retention is the variable that should be targeted. Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? This used to be unheard of. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. What tf is my Aviation ADSO? BrADSO? : r/army Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. I think that mindser still exists. It involves no effort to understand the underlying factors that cause Army pilots to depart and is nothing more than a surface-level solution to a fundamental problem. I'm thinking Army will start pushing dates to the right as much as possible to achieve its newfound maximum retention. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. More career Enlisted apply than street2seat on a yearly basis. I'm in better shape today than I was 10 years ago. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. Paste as plain text instead, What are a few of the issues which the Army could resolve for aviators? Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. MWI Podcast: Is Great-Power Competition a Strategy? Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. What is the real answer? Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. Its a lot to ask. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people.