I think this will all be academic soon as widespread familiarisation with American English via movies and TV is evolving English usage in many ways. 01.12.1952-(05.1953) HMS Orion (submarine) (07.1954) no appointment listed: 21.09.1954 : RN Torpedo Depot Antrim . . Because that's what it should be called. The Lieutenant always had someone guarding the sword when the Commanding Officer was wearing it. 2nd Bn. (Salonika) Territorial Force Nursing Service who died 01/03/1918 KNOWLE (SS. gold coast shark attack video; giant schnauzer service dog for sale Contemporary British authors write "lootenant" for the American pronunciation, as far as I recall, so I would expect the British pronunciation to be "leftenant" as it is now. As far as I'm aware the English/British pronunciation is and has always been "leftenant". Is it like . My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? Stoppage Drill7 March , 2012 in Sailors, navies and the war at sea. Websters dictionary only lists Lieutenant. That said, it sounds downright silly to pronounce "lieu" as "left," but if Brits like it that way, it's fine with me. Drinking too much water is #1 on the list! BUT, that doesn't mean the rest of us are ignorant dolts. I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it (even though I've had that "American Speech" article I quoted from for five years now). With that said, my best assumption would be the translation from French is the most likely reason for the difference in pronunciations. That could have something to do with it. and Gen. Hos. Also hear how to pronounce 'COLONEL" correctly: https://youtu.be/YyiLRtxCWuE Listen and learn how to say Lieutenant correctly (military rank) with Julien, "h. The Royal Australian Air Force will reactivate a squadron for the three MQ-4C Triton unmanned aerial vehicles it will start operating in 2024, Australian Defense officials announced Friday. 2. Routing number of commercial bank of Ethiopia? The earliest examples in OED are all from Scotland, and it seems even then that the "Lefftenant" pronunciation was being used (Barbour's "Bruce" has "luftenand" in the mid 14th century). It's not just French dialects: consider modern French "neuf" ("nine") < "novem", "neuf" (new) < "novum", "boeuf" ("bull") < "bovem", "naf" ("naive") < "nativum". English is a rhotic language. MzUxODVlY2FhZWY1NDI0ODk1YmJiMjgxY2QyNzFkYzExN2Y3ZTM5NTUyODgy Applications of mathematics to warfare & Americans need to stop hating on the French -- without Benny Franklin's requesting help from King Louis in 1775, there would be no USA. For a great example of Elizabethan Pronunciation (which, by the by, was used over 200 years BEFORE the RP non-rhotic pronunciation became popular) check out this youtube link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s. dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. How can we prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. According to a letter from the Permanent Secretary to the Board of Admiralty mentioned in a 1949 article in American Speech, the correct pronunciation is/was either "ltnnt" or "l'tnnt". JOHN THE BAPTIST, LAWRENCE AND ANN) CHURCHYARD United Kingdom ' The French have said lieu at least back to the Middle Ages. No, "lief" is a different word, akin to "love" (German "Lieb"). Is it like saying "Leftenant" without the f, or saying "le tenant"? Anybody got a copy ? More of an observation than fact. During the early days of the naval rank, some lieutenants could be very junior indeed, while others could be on the cusp of promotion to captain; those lieutenants ranged across present-day army ranks from a second lieutenant through to a lieutenant colonel. Even later, when the Americans cuddled up to the French during the revolutionary war, their pronunciation changed to follow the french term. Well, the Australian navy was a copy cat of the RN in all things good (and bad) and it was always Lef - tenant there. Primary Menu. In smaller ships that have only a single deck division, the billet is typically filled by an ensign; while in larger ships, with a deck department consisting of multiple subordinate divisions, the billet may be filled by a lieutenant commander. In the US Navy, roles include lieutenant junior grade (LT JG . As the head tenant became richer he was able to pay for a knight to stand in lieu of him. lieutenant pronunciation royal navy. The United States Coast Guard follows the same policy regarding promotion to lieutenant. As to why present day usage is as it is: People can be contrary. Royal Indian Navy rating : Ty/ Temporary : TE. The Yanks call it "lootenant" across the board. 6 Reserve Lorry Park Royal Air Force who died 28/02/1919 BELGRADE CEMETERY Belgium ' Yzk5ZTUzOWRkMzJlZjIyZDJhZDVkZWMyMjcyYzE4ZGEyN2ZjOTEzMzQwNDQw 2/ What is British English? Seems Ben was right on the Revolutionary War beint the dividing point of British and American pronunciation, but IMO, it's pronounced with the F or V sound because of the U/V being interchangable during that time. Leinster Regiment who died 27/02/1918 JERUSALEM MEMORIAL Israel and Palestine (including Gaza) ' [TMP] "Leftenant or Lootenant?" Topic . Lieutenant Sub-Lieutenant Commissioned Warrant Officer Engineer Branch From 1 April, 1903, the ranks and titles of officers of the Engineer Branch were changed and given titles akin to the Military Branch. In the phonetics you gave - "either "ltnnt" or "l'tnnt" : - is pronounced like the a in about [u-bowt] or the e in bitte (a sort of uh sound), and ' is showing that the sound following it is stressed. dailyinfo[26]=' Chaplain 4th Class The Rev. When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a . WW2 Royal Navy Sub Lieutenant's peaked cap, HMS Indomitable. Just want to clarify, Americans speak proper English, not the British. The Royal Navy in World War 2 was a huge and complex organisation spread all across the world. (So immediately would be i'mi:djtli). dailyinfo[7]=' Lieutenant Thomas Sydney Ough DEALY Australian Flying Corps who died 07/03/1918 STONYHURST COLLEGE BURIAL GROUND United Kingdom ' OGRjNTY2MGZmNzY5MjBiNTFhMGUyYTE0YWZiNTEwYjBhOTBmYTBhYzJhZjM4 var month=mydate.getMonth()+1 Perhaps I do not have the correct letters to express the actual saying ?? NDIyYjk3YWY3OTFlOWI1NjE5NmQ5ZGRhOTIxYTE1ZjNkNzAwNWE4ZWI3MzJh The idea that the change in pronunciation is due to nationalist jingoism is somewhat misguided - as it was more of a way for the educated upper class to distance themselves from the uneducated poor, but the fact that they sounded "posher" than their colonial cousins (with whom they had just engaged in TWO bloody wars) definitely served to sweeten the pot. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Note the spelling with f and v. The Old French word lieu had a rare variant form luef, and a form of Old French lieutenant using this rare form rather than lieu may have been picked up by Middle English speakers. The "lefttenant" doesn't exist in French, at least, I didn't find it, I will search further. If we cannot ask questions of each, we cannot learn from each other. Here's a map of Rhotic accents in the 1950's: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/RhoticEngland.png , but this is what it looks like now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RhoticEngland2.png . No one can really say why in the British Army the word is pronounced "left-tenant" but it's notable that in the Royal Navy the pronunciation seems half way across the ocean. Let's just promote them all to captain and be done with it! Historically, the lieutenants in a ship were ranked in accordance with seniority, with the most senior being termed the first lieutenant and acting as the second-in-command. The 2001 edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary says 'left.' We're not all narrow-minded fools. Lieutenants and sub-lieutenants are equivalent to ranks with a NATO code of OF-1. You could also serve in the Ministry of Defence. See if you're eligible and learn more about the joining process. Historically, the lieutenants in a ship were ranked in accordance with seniority, with the most senior being termed the first lieutenant and acting as the second-in-command. In American English it is pronouced "lootenant". In the United States, contingent on the type of uniform worn, U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, USPHS Commissioned Corps, and NOAA Corps lieutenants also wear pin-on metal collar, shoulder, or headgear insignia, or cloth shoulder, collar, tabbed, or headgear insignia identical to that of a United States Marine Corps captain and similar to that of a United States Army, United States Air Force, or United States Space Force captain. YWVmOGM3ZDZkNTJhNjYwMjlhNmI5MDBiYmViYjY1M2ZiNDA5MzFiYTc3YmQ5 It is therefore not surprising that the Navy's rank, profession, trade, pay and related badges structures were complex, and even today defy any claim to really understand them in full. Bluecher German Navy who died 29/01/1915 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' devil rays jersey 2021; In the Royal Navy it isn't. Why exactly do the British say lieutenant as ''leftenant . NmFiZGIxNzIxNTJhN2I5YzM5NWNiMTI2MjVjMTQzZTdkYTIwNWExMjEzNjY2 Instead, I found 20 or so different answers! ), from lieu "place" (see lieu) + tenant, present participle of tenir "to hold," from PIE root *ten- "to stretch." The notion is of a "substitute" for higher authority. dailyinfo[11]=' Captain Charles Edmund WOOD Mentioned in Despatches Adjt. Apply for a career in The Royal Canadian Navy Apply Now lieutenant (n.) late 14c., "one who takes the place of another," from Old French lieu tenant "substitute, deputy," literally "place holder" (14c. Nothing like a bunch of egos giving their opinions Where's that "Hot for Words" Russian sweetheart when you need her ??? "The first reference to a naval Lieutenant is in 1580 when one was borne in each ship as the Captain's understudy. A lieutenant was numbered by his seniority within the ship on which he served, so that a frigate (which was entitled to three) would have a first, a second, and a third lieutenant. var mydate=new Date() Check out Dr. Berg's Electrolyte Powder Here: https://drbrg.co/3xbvH0A Later, when the drive by the English to rid the language of french words began, they modified the word to try to match their pronunciation and made it "leftenant". In the Royal Navy, the pronunciation used to be "L'tenant" but never "Lootenant". -----BEGIN REPORT----- Lieutenant Commander's may be Executive Officers and also they may find themselves Commanding Officers of some of the Royal Navy's smaller units. I think the people addressing the old U and V issue are on the right track, however I think a better explanation is that in old french, lieu was spelled luef. The post of first lieutenant in a shore establishment carries a similar responsibility to that of the first lieutenant of a capital ship. Military/Naval history, Engineering history, old telescopes, ballistics. The Drill Halls project: http://www.drillhalls.org I thought the pronunciation with /f/ arose from the 'minim confusion'; in Middle English, both v and u were used interchangeably. The appointment of "first lieutenant" in many navies is held by a senior lieutenant. MDUwMTdkNzA4YTAxNTJkZWY1ZWU0M2U2M2U0YjViZGNjN2ZlZjEyYTQ0YjQ4 A newspaper quot. Are you considering the U.S. Navy as enlisted or as an officer? NWEzNjA5OGIwZDA4MDk1MzliMTE3N2YwNjNjZDVhYjM5MTBmNjljNzQ3Y2Zm 1st Bn. Lieutenant. By the way I was a sub-lieutenant so did pay some attention to how to pronounce and especially how the captain pronounced it certainly never leftenant or lootenant. @BrianHooper Every member of the Royal Navy I've met (a considerable number, from a wide variety of branches) has pronounced it 'lef-tenant'. NDMzNmFhZDVkMTA0YjM4NjEwYzZlZWE0OTY5YTJlMjFmOGExZWMwMDFjOGFi Why does everyone say Colonel as "Kernel" or Coxswain as "Koksin"? Royal Navy, 1854-1919. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. I don't understand all the nasty comments. /l(j)evtnnt/ (hypercorrection) Assimilation /l(j)eftnnt/. Expect to have to 'fill in the blanks', choose the 'odd one out' or find the relationship between the given words and phrases. I was always taught - in the '50s - that "left" was army, "loo" was American, and Le'tenant (emphasis on the "ten" )was RN, and therefore right ! How To Pronounce Lieutenant (Royal Navy) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (Senior Grade) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (Star Trek) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (U.S. Navy) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (U.S.) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (United States) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (United States) (disambiguation) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (US Navy) How do/did the RAF pronounce (Flight) Lieutenant? Actually, David from Birmingham, you're flat wrong about Ben from Denver being a moron because he asserted that British people used to speak like Americans. Maybe that was just RAF folks being corrupted by USAF folks while here in the states, I dunno. The early history of the pronunciation is unclear; . Today in Naval History - Naval / Maritime Events in History 1st of August please use the following link and you will find the details and all events of. 0 && stateHdr.searchDesk ? As for the AmE pronunciation, John Algeo in The Origins and Development of the English Language says that [lutennt] was recommended by Noah Webster in his American Dictionary of the English Language (1828). Some sources claim that 'lieutenant' had alternative spellings such as leftenant, leftenaunt, lieftenant, lieftenaunt etc., and that the ModE pronunciation with /f/ (BrE mostly) is a holdover from those spellings. I, personally, have always pronounced it as lieu - tenant - because it simply makes sense to say it this way. Many years ago as a student I took a summer job working in my local greengrocers shop. Lieutenants formed the backbone of the officer corps, being the most numerous class of officer. . Royal Horse Artillery who died 21/02/1917 GUARDS CEMETERY, COMBLES France ' YmYwNmU1M2U4YTkwZmVmNmJjMjAyZmU4ZDYzYzZjMDk4ZGYxMzUzODNlYzNj M2M0ZTc2Njg0NGNlM2I5YmIwZTRiZDBlNWE2MzJlZjFmYjFkYWI4NzUzMzNm No one really knows why, it's just one of those things that happens with military tradition. NDI5NzNmNDI0NTdkOWM2MmIzNzYyNmYxNTBlOTUzYWI4NzY5ODk3M2ZmNTdh Such is the case with the word lieutenant. Royal Army Medical Corps who died 22/02/1919 NUNHEAD (ALL SAINTS) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' . Very true but 'english' is a composite of innumerable other languages often incorrectly pronounced or altered from the original spelling or even meaning. I speak no more like a hick than Tony Blair speaks like Russell Brand. Middlesex Regiment who died 25/02/1921 LADYWELL CEMETERY United Kingdom ' Mjk4MGFjZTkxMzlhMWZlM2VhODM4NmU1MDA4MTljNWNjMDFlN2JkYTQ2NGE5 Share; Posted 8 March , 2012 . Modern French pouvoir from pooir). The French don't swap v & u, but their Latin Roman ancestors did; as do the Semites (Phoenicians &/or Hebrews). Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates, Using indicator constraint with two variables, Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. dailyinfo[3]=' 45 Gunner HAZURA SINGH 31st Mountain Battery Indian Mountain Artillery who died 03/03/1920 TEHRAN MEMORIAL Iranm ' There are so many opinions that contradict each other. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? var fontend = '' MILITARY HISTORY, of 1893 in Func's standard Dictionary says that (lef'tenent) is in the U.S. 'almost confined to the retired list of the navy'. NWYzOGFlOTdjNTMwMmRjOGMwMDU3ZDE3ZjZiYjFjZjEyZWY3YmNjM2I4ZGYy MzQyMzNiMTQ2MDU0MGY2YTM5MjUzMmExNThjMTRhYzM0ZGRmYmU2ZGM1OGRj In England this pronunciation (lju:'tenent) is almost unknown. Perhaps (too) much French influence on the fledgling USN in the Napoleonic Wars. It sure engenders some puzzled looks, but they are often followed by an "ah-ha" nod. 55th and 57th Divisions ('v' naturally becomes a voiceless 'f' in assimilation to the following 't' in many languages.). Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' This little story offers another simple explanation of the inserted "F" in the pronunciation. 3 Barbara Matthews I served in the National Guard and Navy. I have some 18th Century New England ancestors who were named "Zerviah, although much of the time the name shows up as "Zeruiah" (which is virtually impossible to pronounce). The first syllable is pronounced similarly to that of the French word "le," and then tennant. I have always thought that Lieutenant (lootenant) ie., a tenant in lieu of another as in subaltern ie., under another, or alternate makes more sense than lieutenant (left-tenant). Why do Brits say bloody? I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it . I think the concept of a person holding place on the left side of his commanding officer has merit; thus the "left" came into it, but only orally. At first, a lieutenant's commission was given only for the particular ship in which he served, but after the loss of HMS Wager in 1741 and the subsequent mutiny, the Royal Navy changed its policy and lieutenants were given more general commissions upon passing their examination.[1]. YjNhM2FhZTE4ZmRmZjMyYTE0OGQxODk1MjlhN2M2YTVmNWIwZTkxYzk5YjMy merchant seaman serving under Naval Articles, Naval Officers and subjecting them to naval discipline (number of the form) Tindal. Please click for detailed translation, meaning, pronunciation and example sentences for lieutenant commander (royal navy) in English It's possible the US adopted "Loo" because and only because the Brits said "Lef" -- or vice-versa. However, we have been at war with the Dutch and still use some Dutch expressions like Dutch courage, go Dutch, Dutch yaw and Double Dutch. No response from any American on this page has earned such a bitter rebuke. Captain . (Not all of you, some of you had some insightful comments above; but the anally retentive chauvinists above know who they are). How is lieutenant pronounced in the Royal Navy? LVA stands for Lieutenant Vice Admiral in terms of royal navy ranks. Who is Katy mixon body double eastbound and down season 1 finale? The Vosges and Alsace in occupation and wartime: I think a lot of younger people in the UK also do so. lieutenant pronunciation royal navy. I'll just note the UK pronunciation you cite is not 100% prevalent in the UK, I've known more than a few Brits that pronounced it the same way Americans do. English is called English because it evolved from England - that's about as far as we can go with nationalist claims to the language. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? Unlike other words that have been standardised to read more phonetically (especially true in the United States), military terms have tended to retain their peculiarities out of a desire to maintain traditions. While Americans (and possibly others) pronounce this as "loo-tenant", folks from the UK pronounce it as "lef-tenant". NGEyNDg1YjNkOGQ1YmM4ZmMxZjJjMjIzOTg0OGIwYTFhMWQ2ZTBjNWQ4Y2Ux It's apparent from the examples of usage given that a mixture was in use, e.g. Why do we still spell it the old way? Your access to this site was blocked by Wordfence, a security provider, who protects sites from malicious activity. dailyinfo[22]=' 25368 Quartermaster Serjeant Leonard Henry CADE Meritorious Service Medal 12th Coy. I'll bet George Washington used the English term at the beginning. Featured roles Do I need a thermal expansion tank if I already have a pressure tank? A lieutenant is the second junior-most or in some cases the junior-most commissioned officer in the armed forces, fire services, police, and other organizations of many nations. They served as watchkeeping officers and also specialised, becoming Gunnery, and later . I'm going to look at a credible site now. ;-). The hypothesis of a mere misinterpretation of the graphic form (u read as v), at first sight plausible, does not accord with the facts. Although lieutenants are no longer numbered by seniority, the post of "first lieutenant" remains. NjcyOWZhNTVmNGZiOGQwMDU5ZDg4ZGI4ZjRlYzZhOGMxZGM3ODQyNDQ0NWU0 Pronunciation of "Lieutenant" . In the U.S. Navy or U.S. Coast Guard, the billet of first lieutenant describes the officer in charge of the deck department or division, depending on the size of the ship. In 1677, Samuel Pepys, while he was Chief Secretary to the Admiralty, introduced the first examination for lieutenant,[2] and thereafter their seniority was dated from the passing of this examination. Do roots of these polynomials approach the negative of the Euler-Mascheroni constant? 9080) taken on an Avian 30/80 h.p. The politicians and the public wanted nothing that sounded French. Apply Now Where will your journey take you? Please show me a source for this in and Old French dictionary.